As promised I will lay out today exactly what I claimed from Demon. The list is as follows:
£24.99 for the loss of one months service due to throttling.
£20.26 for the loss of use of my MMORPG subscriptions.
£193.56 for the increased cost of a new ISP to meet our needs over the next 12 months.
£30.00 Court fee
£268.81 in total.
The process to take out a summons is fairly straightforward and has lots of help screens to provide support. You can also go back and forth to change the details before committing. One word of caution though. The Small Claims Court used is in Northampton, so if you do have to attend court you need to take this into consideration. You can, of course, ask for costs if you win on the day.
I would recommend this course of action. It is very straightforward and there is a high degree of success, from what I have seen of most of the FUP's I've seen. Although you must remember that I am not a lawyer, I am always happy to accept correspondence.
I will be writing to OFCOM and the Advertising Standards to raise the profile of FUP's. I will, of course, put the correspondence up here.
Thursday, 8 March 2007
Wednesday, 7 March 2007
The Cheque's in the Post
This morning a cheque came through the post along with the following letter:
Dear Sirs
I refer to the above claim and enclose a cheque in the sum of £xxx in full and final settlement of all claims relative to this matter, without admission of liability by THUS Plc (erroneously referred to as Demon Internet Limited in the Claim Form) trading as Demon. Please confirm safe receipt of the enclosed cheque by return.
I also enclose a letter to Northampton County Court which I require you to sign and return to me as a matter of urgency. As you will note, the letter confirms that you have received payment in full and final settlement of all claims relative to this matter and that the claim (reference no. XXXXXXX) should be dismissed. Once I have received the signed letter it will be forwarded to Northampton County Court for action.
I look forward to hearing from you.
Yours sincerely
Muriel Finnigan
Legal Adviser
The covering letter says the following:
Dear Sirs,
I refer to the above and advise that my claim against THUS Plc (erroneously referred to as Demon Internet Limited in the claim form) trading as Demon reference no. XXXXXXX, should be dismissed with no expense due to or by either party.
The matter has been resolved by payment from Thus Plc trading as Demon of £xxx in full and final settlement of this claim.
As many of you realise, once the cheque has cleared, this brings to an end my legal battle against Demon's Fair Use Policy. As Demon have settled the total cost of my claim there is no case left for them to answer.
This more or less proves that Demon do not believe that their Fair Use Policy is supportable in a court of law. This was a great opportunity for them to prove under judicial examination, that the deliberate punishment of a group of its own customers for using the service they pay for to the full, is legally acceptable.
This now leaves the road open for others to pursue Demon through the Small Claims Court, to claim recompense for the losses that this arbitrary and unfair policy has inflicted upon them.
Tomorrow I will reveal the full amount that I claimed from Demon and explain how easy it is to take action via the Small Claims Court.
Dear Sirs
I refer to the above claim and enclose a cheque in the sum of £xxx in full and final settlement of all claims relative to this matter, without admission of liability by THUS Plc (erroneously referred to as Demon Internet Limited in the Claim Form) trading as Demon. Please confirm safe receipt of the enclosed cheque by return.
I also enclose a letter to Northampton County Court which I require you to sign and return to me as a matter of urgency. As you will note, the letter confirms that you have received payment in full and final settlement of all claims relative to this matter and that the claim (reference no. XXXXXXX) should be dismissed. Once I have received the signed letter it will be forwarded to Northampton County Court for action.
I look forward to hearing from you.
Yours sincerely
Muriel Finnigan
Legal Adviser
The covering letter says the following:
Dear Sirs,
I refer to the above and advise that my claim against THUS Plc (erroneously referred to as Demon Internet Limited in the claim form) trading as Demon reference no. XXXXXXX, should be dismissed with no expense due to or by either party.
The matter has been resolved by payment from Thus Plc trading as Demon of £xxx in full and final settlement of this claim.
As many of you realise, once the cheque has cleared, this brings to an end my legal battle against Demon's Fair Use Policy. As Demon have settled the total cost of my claim there is no case left for them to answer.
This more or less proves that Demon do not believe that their Fair Use Policy is supportable in a court of law. This was a great opportunity for them to prove under judicial examination, that the deliberate punishment of a group of its own customers for using the service they pay for to the full, is legally acceptable.
This now leaves the road open for others to pursue Demon through the Small Claims Court, to claim recompense for the losses that this arbitrary and unfair policy has inflicted upon them.
Tomorrow I will reveal the full amount that I claimed from Demon and explain how easy it is to take action via the Small Claims Court.
Monday, 5 March 2007
Things become surreal
Yesterday I went onto the Small Claims website (http://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk) to check the progress of my case. I found that Demon have acknowledged the writ and have until the 28th of March to submit their decision how to proceed.
The reason why I went onto the website was because I had received a letter from Demon yesterday. I opened the envelope expecting to find a defence or a discussion document; instead I found a credit note for the full amount of my claim.
What this means is a source of considerable conjecture in my family - one school of thought is that they have settled and have not yet paid the funds, another is that it is only a credit note and I have to return to Demon to spend it (shudder). The second option was only mentioned in mirth by the way.
It will be interesting to see what happens next - watch this space.
The reason why I went onto the website was because I had received a letter from Demon yesterday. I opened the envelope expecting to find a defence or a discussion document; instead I found a credit note for the full amount of my claim.
What this means is a source of considerable conjecture in my family - one school of thought is that they have settled and have not yet paid the funds, another is that it is only a credit note and I have to return to Demon to spend it (shudder). The second option was only mentioned in mirth by the way.
It will be interesting to see what happens next - watch this space.
Friday, 2 March 2007
Demon in Cloud Cuckoo Land
Things are getting funnier as time goes on. I received this letter from Demon this morning:
Date: 26/02/2007
Dear
I am writing to advise you that as from 26/02/2007 we have been informed that your Direct Debit under the reference below has been cancelled:
Demon Internet would be grateful if you could provide up to date details so that we may continue to collect your subscriptions. Please be advised that if a new payment method is not arranged within five working days we will consider suspending your account pending settlement and reserve the right to pass your account to a third party collection agency.
It is strongly advised, if your account holds Domain/Web services, you do not allow your account to be suspended. Due to the timing of DNS builds it can take 24-48 hours for your web services to be reactivated, during which your website and e-mail facilities will be unavailable.
If you have recently amended your Direct Debit details or have closed your account with Demon, then please ignore this letter.
If you wish to change the Bank Account that Demon Bill against, please use our secure web site to amend your payment details at:
www.demon.net/mypayment
Alternatively, if you wish to discuss this matter you may contact us using the details below.
Yours faithfully
Customer Services
Demon
Telephone 8am to 8pm, Monday to Saturday: 0845 272 2333
Email: enquiries@demon.net
Fax: 01702 214 651
After only two days ago receiving a letter saying how sorry they are that I had cancelled they are now threatening me with a collection agency to collect my payments. Priceless.
Oh well, if they try to collect I'll add it to my costs.
Date: 26/02/2007
Dear
I am writing to advise you that as from 26/02/2007 we have been informed that your Direct Debit under the reference below has been cancelled:
Demon Internet would be grateful if you could provide up to date details so that we may continue to collect your subscriptions. Please be advised that if a new payment method is not arranged within five working days we will consider suspending your account pending settlement and reserve the right to pass your account to a third party collection agency.
It is strongly advised, if your account holds Domain/Web services, you do not allow your account to be suspended. Due to the timing of DNS builds it can take 24-48 hours for your web services to be reactivated, during which your website and e-mail facilities will be unavailable.
If you have recently amended your Direct Debit details or have closed your account with Demon, then please ignore this letter.
If you wish to change the Bank Account that Demon Bill against, please use our secure web site to amend your payment details at:
www.demon.net/mypayment
Alternatively, if you wish to discuss this matter you may contact us using the details below.
Yours faithfully
Customer Services
Demon
Telephone 8am to 8pm, Monday to Saturday: 0845 272 2333
Email: enquiries@demon.net
Fax: 01702 214 651
After only two days ago receiving a letter saying how sorry they are that I had cancelled they are now threatening me with a collection agency to collect my payments. Priceless.
Oh well, if they try to collect I'll add it to my costs.
Monday, 26 February 2007
Disconnected Demon
I received the following letter from Demon yesterday morning:
Dear
We are sorry that you are cancelling your standard dial-up - hostname
This is to acknowledge that your service will end as of Feb 23 2007.
Annual accounts paid in advance will be refunded for each complete pre-paid month remaining.
Should you wish to re-join Demon Internet in the future we would be delighted to assist you. We will reserve your hostname for you for a period of one year.
Yours sincerely
Simon Blackburn
Head of Customer Support Centre - THUS plc
It never fails to amaze me that after 2 recorded delivery letters and a summons, their automated system still produces letters like this. It is this sort of automated disinterest that forces people to take action in the first place.
As you will have seen from my previous posts and the comments left, I have been in discussion with Helen. She is saying that Fair Use prevents users from abusing a system that would otherwise be too expensive for many people to use. Whilst I am not advocating the use of completely unlimited broadband, The honest principle would be to get rid of FUP's completely and replace them with a clear indication of what the limits are for all services.
The dictionary definition of unlimited is: "without any qualification or exception; unconditional." By imposing a Fair Use Policy, ISP's are deliberately miss representing the meaning of a unlimited service. It is this dishonesty that I object to.
The only reason I can see, why a company would use the terms "unlimited" and qualify it with a "fair use policy" is as a form of deception created by marketing people so that they can avoid allowing competitors making detrimental comparisons with their services.
Dear
We are sorry that you are cancelling your standard dial-up - hostname
This is to acknowledge that your service will end as of Feb 23 2007.
Annual accounts paid in advance will be refunded for each complete pre-paid month remaining.
Should you wish to re-join Demon Internet in the future we would be delighted to assist you. We will reserve your hostname for you for a period of one year.
Yours sincerely
Simon Blackburn
Head of Customer Support Centre - THUS plc
It never fails to amaze me that after 2 recorded delivery letters and a summons, their automated system still produces letters like this. It is this sort of automated disinterest that forces people to take action in the first place.
As you will have seen from my previous posts and the comments left, I have been in discussion with Helen. She is saying that Fair Use prevents users from abusing a system that would otherwise be too expensive for many people to use. Whilst I am not advocating the use of completely unlimited broadband, The honest principle would be to get rid of FUP's completely and replace them with a clear indication of what the limits are for all services.
The dictionary definition of unlimited is: "without any qualification or exception; unconditional." By imposing a Fair Use Policy, ISP's are deliberately miss representing the meaning of a unlimited service. It is this dishonesty that I object to.
The only reason I can see, why a company would use the terms "unlimited" and qualify it with a "fair use policy" is as a form of deception created by marketing people so that they can avoid allowing competitors making detrimental comparisons with their services.
Saturday, 24 February 2007
The New ISP - part 2
I've had a few interesting posts regarding my new ISP. Yes, I know it is a Entanet reseller, but the person running it has got me over the initial niggles in short order. It is interesting to note that the person who made the comments Internet Service Provider has a FUP that I object to. It does not list the limits that people use and fudges the matter by saying:
"The Fair Usage Policy is based on an historical view of customer [sic]. This customer usage is then compared to a 'traffic quota' - the level of data that can be sent and received as per the Acceptable Usage Policy, based on the average use of the network over a given period of time.
Customers found to be over this quota may experience slower speeds during peak hours. Speed reductions will be progressive, i.e. the more bandwidth used above the quota, the slower the speed experienced. This allows other users a fair share of the available bandwidth."
This FUP is tied into a service that is listed as "Premium Max Unlimited" and is no such thing. It is, in fact, exactly the same as the other packages they sell, but less honest. This is bearing in mind that this package costs a whopping £83.99 a month!!!
The FUP does not tell you what the limits are, does not tell you what the penalties are even, only that it will be slowed. The comment about "a fair share of the bandwidth" is absurd. If you have paid for this service, the ISP should provide it to the best of their abilities without let or hindrance. If they want to restrict it they should be honest and advertise the limits clearly and unambiguously.
I challenge this person to get the ISP involved to withdraw their FUP, as it is legally unenforceable anyway, and make it a true unlimited service. Either that or remove the "unlimited" service and replace it with a transparent service that clearly defines its limits.
"The Fair Usage Policy is based on an historical view of customer [sic]. This customer usage is then compared to a 'traffic quota' - the level of data that can be sent and received as per the Acceptable Usage Policy, based on the average use of the network over a given period of time.
Customers found to be over this quota may experience slower speeds during peak hours. Speed reductions will be progressive, i.e. the more bandwidth used above the quota, the slower the speed experienced. This allows other users a fair share of the available bandwidth."
This FUP is tied into a service that is listed as "Premium Max Unlimited" and is no such thing. It is, in fact, exactly the same as the other packages they sell, but less honest. This is bearing in mind that this package costs a whopping £83.99 a month!!!
The FUP does not tell you what the limits are, does not tell you what the penalties are even, only that it will be slowed. The comment about "a fair share of the bandwidth" is absurd. If you have paid for this service, the ISP should provide it to the best of their abilities without let or hindrance. If they want to restrict it they should be honest and advertise the limits clearly and unambiguously.
I challenge this person to get the ISP involved to withdraw their FUP, as it is legally unenforceable anyway, and make it a true unlimited service. Either that or remove the "unlimited" service and replace it with a transparent service that clearly defines its limits.
Thursday, 22 February 2007
The New ISP
I converted our router over to the new ISP this evening. I expected that it would be a chore, but it was very simple really, just change the login and the DNS settings and off I went. The difference was very dramatic. When on Demon, it was chugging along very slowly, but after switching, it's like being on an express train.
After a lot of debate, we finally went with UKFSN (http://www.ukfsn.org for those interested). The reason for this was that they are up front with their charging plans, no FUP nonsense. We pay to download 90Gb per month at peak times and 330Gb at off peak times - that's it. I will let you all know how things progress as time goes on, but initially I'm impressed. I think that this outfit is a small one, which after the impersonal attitude of Demon, is a major benefit.
The other thing I like about this supplier is that the money is ploughed back into software development and also he is against DRM (Digital Rights Management) which is another of my pet hates.
After a lot of debate, we finally went with UKFSN (http://www.ukfsn.org for those interested). The reason for this was that they are up front with their charging plans, no FUP nonsense. We pay to download 90Gb per month at peak times and 330Gb at off peak times - that's it. I will let you all know how things progress as time goes on, but initially I'm impressed. I think that this outfit is a small one, which after the impersonal attitude of Demon, is a major benefit.
The other thing I like about this supplier is that the money is ploughed back into software development and also he is against DRM (Digital Rights Management) which is another of my pet hates.
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