As promised I will lay out today exactly what I claimed from Demon. The list is as follows:
£24.99 for the loss of one months service due to throttling.
£20.26 for the loss of use of my MMORPG subscriptions.
£193.56 for the increased cost of a new ISP to meet our needs over the next 12 months.
£30.00 Court fee
£268.81 in total.
The process to take out a summons is fairly straightforward and has lots of help screens to provide support. You can also go back and forth to change the details before committing. One word of caution though. The Small Claims Court used is in Northampton, so if you do have to attend court you need to take this into consideration. You can, of course, ask for costs if you win on the day.
I would recommend this course of action. It is very straightforward and there is a high degree of success, from what I have seen of most of the FUP's I've seen. Although you must remember that I am not a lawyer, I am always happy to accept correspondence.
I will be writing to OFCOM and the Advertising Standards to raise the profile of FUP's. I will, of course, put the correspondence up here.
Thursday 8 March 2007
Wednesday 7 March 2007
The Cheque's in the Post
This morning a cheque came through the post along with the following letter:
Dear Sirs
I refer to the above claim and enclose a cheque in the sum of £xxx in full and final settlement of all claims relative to this matter, without admission of liability by THUS Plc (erroneously referred to as Demon Internet Limited in the Claim Form) trading as Demon. Please confirm safe receipt of the enclosed cheque by return.
I also enclose a letter to Northampton County Court which I require you to sign and return to me as a matter of urgency. As you will note, the letter confirms that you have received payment in full and final settlement of all claims relative to this matter and that the claim (reference no. XXXXXXX) should be dismissed. Once I have received the signed letter it will be forwarded to Northampton County Court for action.
I look forward to hearing from you.
Yours sincerely
Muriel Finnigan
Legal Adviser
The covering letter says the following:
Dear Sirs,
I refer to the above and advise that my claim against THUS Plc (erroneously referred to as Demon Internet Limited in the claim form) trading as Demon reference no. XXXXXXX, should be dismissed with no expense due to or by either party.
The matter has been resolved by payment from Thus Plc trading as Demon of £xxx in full and final settlement of this claim.
As many of you realise, once the cheque has cleared, this brings to an end my legal battle against Demon's Fair Use Policy. As Demon have settled the total cost of my claim there is no case left for them to answer.
This more or less proves that Demon do not believe that their Fair Use Policy is supportable in a court of law. This was a great opportunity for them to prove under judicial examination, that the deliberate punishment of a group of its own customers for using the service they pay for to the full, is legally acceptable.
This now leaves the road open for others to pursue Demon through the Small Claims Court, to claim recompense for the losses that this arbitrary and unfair policy has inflicted upon them.
Tomorrow I will reveal the full amount that I claimed from Demon and explain how easy it is to take action via the Small Claims Court.
Dear Sirs
I refer to the above claim and enclose a cheque in the sum of £xxx in full and final settlement of all claims relative to this matter, without admission of liability by THUS Plc (erroneously referred to as Demon Internet Limited in the Claim Form) trading as Demon. Please confirm safe receipt of the enclosed cheque by return.
I also enclose a letter to Northampton County Court which I require you to sign and return to me as a matter of urgency. As you will note, the letter confirms that you have received payment in full and final settlement of all claims relative to this matter and that the claim (reference no. XXXXXXX) should be dismissed. Once I have received the signed letter it will be forwarded to Northampton County Court for action.
I look forward to hearing from you.
Yours sincerely
Muriel Finnigan
Legal Adviser
The covering letter says the following:
Dear Sirs,
I refer to the above and advise that my claim against THUS Plc (erroneously referred to as Demon Internet Limited in the claim form) trading as Demon reference no. XXXXXXX, should be dismissed with no expense due to or by either party.
The matter has been resolved by payment from Thus Plc trading as Demon of £xxx in full and final settlement of this claim.
As many of you realise, once the cheque has cleared, this brings to an end my legal battle against Demon's Fair Use Policy. As Demon have settled the total cost of my claim there is no case left for them to answer.
This more or less proves that Demon do not believe that their Fair Use Policy is supportable in a court of law. This was a great opportunity for them to prove under judicial examination, that the deliberate punishment of a group of its own customers for using the service they pay for to the full, is legally acceptable.
This now leaves the road open for others to pursue Demon through the Small Claims Court, to claim recompense for the losses that this arbitrary and unfair policy has inflicted upon them.
Tomorrow I will reveal the full amount that I claimed from Demon and explain how easy it is to take action via the Small Claims Court.
Monday 5 March 2007
Things become surreal
Yesterday I went onto the Small Claims website (http://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk) to check the progress of my case. I found that Demon have acknowledged the writ and have until the 28th of March to submit their decision how to proceed.
The reason why I went onto the website was because I had received a letter from Demon yesterday. I opened the envelope expecting to find a defence or a discussion document; instead I found a credit note for the full amount of my claim.
What this means is a source of considerable conjecture in my family - one school of thought is that they have settled and have not yet paid the funds, another is that it is only a credit note and I have to return to Demon to spend it (shudder). The second option was only mentioned in mirth by the way.
It will be interesting to see what happens next - watch this space.
The reason why I went onto the website was because I had received a letter from Demon yesterday. I opened the envelope expecting to find a defence or a discussion document; instead I found a credit note for the full amount of my claim.
What this means is a source of considerable conjecture in my family - one school of thought is that they have settled and have not yet paid the funds, another is that it is only a credit note and I have to return to Demon to spend it (shudder). The second option was only mentioned in mirth by the way.
It will be interesting to see what happens next - watch this space.
Friday 2 March 2007
Demon in Cloud Cuckoo Land
Things are getting funnier as time goes on. I received this letter from Demon this morning:
Date: 26/02/2007
Dear
I am writing to advise you that as from 26/02/2007 we have been informed that your Direct Debit under the reference below has been cancelled:
Demon Internet would be grateful if you could provide up to date details so that we may continue to collect your subscriptions. Please be advised that if a new payment method is not arranged within five working days we will consider suspending your account pending settlement and reserve the right to pass your account to a third party collection agency.
It is strongly advised, if your account holds Domain/Web services, you do not allow your account to be suspended. Due to the timing of DNS builds it can take 24-48 hours for your web services to be reactivated, during which your website and e-mail facilities will be unavailable.
If you have recently amended your Direct Debit details or have closed your account with Demon, then please ignore this letter.
If you wish to change the Bank Account that Demon Bill against, please use our secure web site to amend your payment details at:
www.demon.net/mypayment
Alternatively, if you wish to discuss this matter you may contact us using the details below.
Yours faithfully
Customer Services
Demon
Telephone 8am to 8pm, Monday to Saturday: 0845 272 2333
Email: enquiries@demon.net
Fax: 01702 214 651
After only two days ago receiving a letter saying how sorry they are that I had cancelled they are now threatening me with a collection agency to collect my payments. Priceless.
Oh well, if they try to collect I'll add it to my costs.
Date: 26/02/2007
Dear
I am writing to advise you that as from 26/02/2007 we have been informed that your Direct Debit under the reference below has been cancelled:
Demon Internet would be grateful if you could provide up to date details so that we may continue to collect your subscriptions. Please be advised that if a new payment method is not arranged within five working days we will consider suspending your account pending settlement and reserve the right to pass your account to a third party collection agency.
It is strongly advised, if your account holds Domain/Web services, you do not allow your account to be suspended. Due to the timing of DNS builds it can take 24-48 hours for your web services to be reactivated, during which your website and e-mail facilities will be unavailable.
If you have recently amended your Direct Debit details or have closed your account with Demon, then please ignore this letter.
If you wish to change the Bank Account that Demon Bill against, please use our secure web site to amend your payment details at:
www.demon.net/mypayment
Alternatively, if you wish to discuss this matter you may contact us using the details below.
Yours faithfully
Customer Services
Demon
Telephone 8am to 8pm, Monday to Saturday: 0845 272 2333
Email: enquiries@demon.net
Fax: 01702 214 651
After only two days ago receiving a letter saying how sorry they are that I had cancelled they are now threatening me with a collection agency to collect my payments. Priceless.
Oh well, if they try to collect I'll add it to my costs.
Monday 26 February 2007
Disconnected Demon
I received the following letter from Demon yesterday morning:
Dear
We are sorry that you are cancelling your standard dial-up - hostname
This is to acknowledge that your service will end as of Feb 23 2007.
Annual accounts paid in advance will be refunded for each complete pre-paid month remaining.
Should you wish to re-join Demon Internet in the future we would be delighted to assist you. We will reserve your hostname for you for a period of one year.
Yours sincerely
Simon Blackburn
Head of Customer Support Centre - THUS plc
It never fails to amaze me that after 2 recorded delivery letters and a summons, their automated system still produces letters like this. It is this sort of automated disinterest that forces people to take action in the first place.
As you will have seen from my previous posts and the comments left, I have been in discussion with Helen. She is saying that Fair Use prevents users from abusing a system that would otherwise be too expensive for many people to use. Whilst I am not advocating the use of completely unlimited broadband, The honest principle would be to get rid of FUP's completely and replace them with a clear indication of what the limits are for all services.
The dictionary definition of unlimited is: "without any qualification or exception; unconditional." By imposing a Fair Use Policy, ISP's are deliberately miss representing the meaning of a unlimited service. It is this dishonesty that I object to.
The only reason I can see, why a company would use the terms "unlimited" and qualify it with a "fair use policy" is as a form of deception created by marketing people so that they can avoid allowing competitors making detrimental comparisons with their services.
Dear
We are sorry that you are cancelling your standard dial-up - hostname
This is to acknowledge that your service will end as of Feb 23 2007.
Annual accounts paid in advance will be refunded for each complete pre-paid month remaining.
Should you wish to re-join Demon Internet in the future we would be delighted to assist you. We will reserve your hostname for you for a period of one year.
Yours sincerely
Simon Blackburn
Head of Customer Support Centre - THUS plc
It never fails to amaze me that after 2 recorded delivery letters and a summons, their automated system still produces letters like this. It is this sort of automated disinterest that forces people to take action in the first place.
As you will have seen from my previous posts and the comments left, I have been in discussion with Helen. She is saying that Fair Use prevents users from abusing a system that would otherwise be too expensive for many people to use. Whilst I am not advocating the use of completely unlimited broadband, The honest principle would be to get rid of FUP's completely and replace them with a clear indication of what the limits are for all services.
The dictionary definition of unlimited is: "without any qualification or exception; unconditional." By imposing a Fair Use Policy, ISP's are deliberately miss representing the meaning of a unlimited service. It is this dishonesty that I object to.
The only reason I can see, why a company would use the terms "unlimited" and qualify it with a "fair use policy" is as a form of deception created by marketing people so that they can avoid allowing competitors making detrimental comparisons with their services.
Saturday 24 February 2007
The New ISP - part 2
I've had a few interesting posts regarding my new ISP. Yes, I know it is a Entanet reseller, but the person running it has got me over the initial niggles in short order. It is interesting to note that the person who made the comments Internet Service Provider has a FUP that I object to. It does not list the limits that people use and fudges the matter by saying:
"The Fair Usage Policy is based on an historical view of customer [sic]. This customer usage is then compared to a 'traffic quota' - the level of data that can be sent and received as per the Acceptable Usage Policy, based on the average use of the network over a given period of time.
Customers found to be over this quota may experience slower speeds during peak hours. Speed reductions will be progressive, i.e. the more bandwidth used above the quota, the slower the speed experienced. This allows other users a fair share of the available bandwidth."
This FUP is tied into a service that is listed as "Premium Max Unlimited" and is no such thing. It is, in fact, exactly the same as the other packages they sell, but less honest. This is bearing in mind that this package costs a whopping £83.99 a month!!!
The FUP does not tell you what the limits are, does not tell you what the penalties are even, only that it will be slowed. The comment about "a fair share of the bandwidth" is absurd. If you have paid for this service, the ISP should provide it to the best of their abilities without let or hindrance. If they want to restrict it they should be honest and advertise the limits clearly and unambiguously.
I challenge this person to get the ISP involved to withdraw their FUP, as it is legally unenforceable anyway, and make it a true unlimited service. Either that or remove the "unlimited" service and replace it with a transparent service that clearly defines its limits.
"The Fair Usage Policy is based on an historical view of customer [sic]. This customer usage is then compared to a 'traffic quota' - the level of data that can be sent and received as per the Acceptable Usage Policy, based on the average use of the network over a given period of time.
Customers found to be over this quota may experience slower speeds during peak hours. Speed reductions will be progressive, i.e. the more bandwidth used above the quota, the slower the speed experienced. This allows other users a fair share of the available bandwidth."
This FUP is tied into a service that is listed as "Premium Max Unlimited" and is no such thing. It is, in fact, exactly the same as the other packages they sell, but less honest. This is bearing in mind that this package costs a whopping £83.99 a month!!!
The FUP does not tell you what the limits are, does not tell you what the penalties are even, only that it will be slowed. The comment about "a fair share of the bandwidth" is absurd. If you have paid for this service, the ISP should provide it to the best of their abilities without let or hindrance. If they want to restrict it they should be honest and advertise the limits clearly and unambiguously.
I challenge this person to get the ISP involved to withdraw their FUP, as it is legally unenforceable anyway, and make it a true unlimited service. Either that or remove the "unlimited" service and replace it with a transparent service that clearly defines its limits.
Thursday 22 February 2007
The New ISP
I converted our router over to the new ISP this evening. I expected that it would be a chore, but it was very simple really, just change the login and the DNS settings and off I went. The difference was very dramatic. When on Demon, it was chugging along very slowly, but after switching, it's like being on an express train.
After a lot of debate, we finally went with UKFSN (http://www.ukfsn.org for those interested). The reason for this was that they are up front with their charging plans, no FUP nonsense. We pay to download 90Gb per month at peak times and 330Gb at off peak times - that's it. I will let you all know how things progress as time goes on, but initially I'm impressed. I think that this outfit is a small one, which after the impersonal attitude of Demon, is a major benefit.
The other thing I like about this supplier is that the money is ploughed back into software development and also he is against DRM (Digital Rights Management) which is another of my pet hates.
After a lot of debate, we finally went with UKFSN (http://www.ukfsn.org for those interested). The reason for this was that they are up front with their charging plans, no FUP nonsense. We pay to download 90Gb per month at peak times and 330Gb at off peak times - that's it. I will let you all know how things progress as time goes on, but initially I'm impressed. I think that this outfit is a small one, which after the impersonal attitude of Demon, is a major benefit.
The other thing I like about this supplier is that the money is ploughed back into software development and also he is against DRM (Digital Rights Management) which is another of my pet hates.
Tuesday 20 February 2007
The Irony is ...
It amuses me a great deal that, when Demon sent out their letter to me saying that they were going to steal my bandwidth and break our contract, had they handled the matter with more common sense I may have stayed.
Had Demon sent a letter saying that I had exceeded their FUP limits, so under the circumstances I would have to upgrade to their truly unlimited, un-FUP controlled business service, I would probably have upgraded and stayed with them. After all, I am now paying that kind of money for a limited service from another supplier.
Mind you, I would still have demanded proof that I had stepped over their invisible wire, I would still have raised merry Hell over their breach of contract and I would have still written this blog; oh, and I would still have sued their asses off, but at least they would have been able to mitigate their losses. This is the stupid thing about Demon - they don't know how to deal with people.
It appears, however, they don't know how to look after an Internet service either. My service is still restricted to 1.2 Mbps, 24 hours a day. I was better off when they restricted the service, at least I got 8 Mbps for 11 hours. Not only are they thieves, but incompetent thieves at that.
As an aside, I received the Notice of Issue today. Demon have until March 7th to either:
Had Demon sent a letter saying that I had exceeded their FUP limits, so under the circumstances I would have to upgrade to their truly unlimited, un-FUP controlled business service, I would probably have upgraded and stayed with them. After all, I am now paying that kind of money for a limited service from another supplier.
Mind you, I would still have demanded proof that I had stepped over their invisible wire, I would still have raised merry Hell over their breach of contract and I would have still written this blog; oh, and I would still have sued their asses off, but at least they would have been able to mitigate their losses. This is the stupid thing about Demon - they don't know how to deal with people.
It appears, however, they don't know how to look after an Internet service either. My service is still restricted to 1.2 Mbps, 24 hours a day. I was better off when they restricted the service, at least I got 8 Mbps for 11 hours. Not only are they thieves, but incompetent thieves at that.
As an aside, I received the Notice of Issue today. Demon have until March 7th to either:
- Pay the total claim.
- File an acknowledgement of service. This will allow the defendant 28 days from the date of service of my particulars of claim to file a defence or contest the court's jurisdiction.
- Dispute the whole claim. I will receive a copy of the defence.
- Admit that all the money is owed. The defendant will send me a copy of the reply form and ask the court to enter judgement.
- Admit that only part of your claim is owed. The court will send me a copy of the reply form and I will have to decide what to do next.
- Not reply at all. I may ask the court to enter judgement.
Monday 19 February 2007
Day 32 of being throttled
This morning I came to use my Internet connection, as it shouldn't now be throttled as, over the last 30 days I have downloaded 26Gb of information - less than half of the level set by their FUP.
How surprised do you think I was to find that I could still not display any pages or access Gmail, etc? I immediately phoned Customer Services, who told me that to get the restrictions lifted I had to phone their technical department. I pointed out to them that the Customer Service department imposed the restriction of service and that therefore they should be the ones to tell the technical department to restore the service to its full capacity. The reason for the restriction was not technical but contractual. Can you imagine the techical department restoring full service because I told them it's alright now and that I had served my sentence? Yeah, right.
The interesting point was that, by using the ThinkBroadband speed checker it appears that I was getting a throughput of 1.5Mbps, whereas over the weekend when the service was unthrottled, the service was running at 7Mbps. So although we are not at full service, we are not at 128Kbps either, but a limbo in between.
It is therefore apparent that one of two things is happening; either Demon are throttling our service at 1.5Mbps, in contravention of their service provision, or they are incapable of supplying the 8Mbps service they advertise and contract. In the Demon contract they do not guarantee a 8Mbps service as the exchange may not be capable of supporting the higher speed. As we have been getting a 7Mbps throughput, this proves that the exchange can achieve this, therefore the highest speed should be expected.
It therefore seems that Demon are incapable of policing their own service. Not only do they penalise their users for using the service available, by enforcing a Fair Use Policy, they refuse to supply supporting evidence when asked, refuse to give warning, provide no independent appeals procedure or warn of impending breach. In some cases, as seen in previous blog entries, they throttle the service without telling the customer that they have done so and refuse to admit what they have done, even when directly asked.
Finally then, a word of warning. If you have had your service restricted by Demon Internet or any other Internet Service Provider, do not take it for granted that your service will be restored automatically when the punishment period is completed - check the speed you are getting using a speed checker - you could be horribly surprised.
How surprised do you think I was to find that I could still not display any pages or access Gmail, etc? I immediately phoned Customer Services, who told me that to get the restrictions lifted I had to phone their technical department. I pointed out to them that the Customer Service department imposed the restriction of service and that therefore they should be the ones to tell the technical department to restore the service to its full capacity. The reason for the restriction was not technical but contractual. Can you imagine the techical department restoring full service because I told them it's alright now and that I had served my sentence? Yeah, right.
The interesting point was that, by using the ThinkBroadband speed checker it appears that I was getting a throughput of 1.5Mbps, whereas over the weekend when the service was unthrottled, the service was running at 7Mbps. So although we are not at full service, we are not at 128Kbps either, but a limbo in between.
It is therefore apparent that one of two things is happening; either Demon are throttling our service at 1.5Mbps, in contravention of their service provision, or they are incapable of supplying the 8Mbps service they advertise and contract. In the Demon contract they do not guarantee a 8Mbps service as the exchange may not be capable of supporting the higher speed. As we have been getting a 7Mbps throughput, this proves that the exchange can achieve this, therefore the highest speed should be expected.
It therefore seems that Demon are incapable of policing their own service. Not only do they penalise their users for using the service available, by enforcing a Fair Use Policy, they refuse to supply supporting evidence when asked, refuse to give warning, provide no independent appeals procedure or warn of impending breach. In some cases, as seen in previous blog entries, they throttle the service without telling the customer that they have done so and refuse to admit what they have done, even when directly asked.
Finally then, a word of warning. If you have had your service restricted by Demon Internet or any other Internet Service Provider, do not take it for granted that your service will be restored automatically when the punishment period is completed - check the speed you are getting using a speed checker - you could be horribly surprised.
Saturday 17 February 2007
An interesting maths point
I received another mail from a reader, it reads as follows:
I hate to use some of your restricted bandwidth but I read your blog and
wished to make a mathematical point you may not be aware of but can surly
use if this issue does go to court.
In your first post (dated Febuary 1st 2007) Demon stated their upper limit
was 60 Gig every 30 days (or to simplify 2 Gig a day). Many years ago I used
to have Dial up internet on a 56K modem. On that connection I could
download files at around 10Kb/sec consistently. Here comes the math, just
so you can check and explain if needed:
10Kb/sec x 60sec/min x 60 min/hr x 24 hrs/day
10kb/sec x 60sec = 600Kb
600Kb x 60min = 36Mb
36Mb x 24 hrs = 864 MB per day
Now, that means if you were to download at just 2 and a half times the speed
attainable by dial up you would consistently pass their 2 Gb a day (60 GB a
month) limit. Conversely, if you were to use their 8000 Kb/sec at full
blast and achieve actual transfer rates of maybe 1000 Kb/Sec you would reach
their 2 gig a day cap after 34 minutes and their rolling 30 day limit after
17 hours. This company allows you to use a maximum of 2.5% of what they
sell you.
Put another way, this company charges you for a 10 Lb box of instant potatoes
of which you are allowed to eat 4 ounces.
Well the math is over and I am sorry for any headaches it may have caused.
I hope you, your attorneys, and the judge/jury are as offended by what
these numbers show as I am. I wish you the best as I may soon be in a
similar situation with my ISP.
It's interesting, and shocking, to see how easy it is to exceed the FUP set by Internet providers. It certainly surprised me. Besides, when I take a "unlimited" service, I want to use all of it, perhaps not all the time, but a lot of the time - not 2.5%.
Just to keep everyone up to date, the summons was issued on the 16th of February and the defendant has 14 days to respond.
Finally, I have been asked by a lot of people whether it is possible to begin a class action against the Internet providers to get compensation for the loss of service. Frankly, I don't know, but if there are any lawyers out there who are interested in taking up these cases, I would be interested in hearing from you.
I hate to use some of your restricted bandwidth but I read your blog and
wished to make a mathematical point you may not be aware of but can surly
use if this issue does go to court.
In your first post (dated Febuary 1st 2007) Demon stated their upper limit
was 60 Gig every 30 days (or to simplify 2 Gig a day). Many years ago I used
to have Dial up internet on a 56K modem. On that connection I could
download files at around 10Kb/sec consistently. Here comes the math, just
so you can check and explain if needed:
10Kb/sec x 60sec/min x 60 min/hr x 24 hrs/day
10kb/sec x 60sec = 600Kb
600Kb x 60min = 36Mb
36Mb x 24 hrs = 864 MB per day
Now, that means if you were to download at just 2 and a half times the speed
attainable by dial up you would consistently pass their 2 Gb a day (60 GB a
month) limit. Conversely, if you were to use their 8000 Kb/sec at full
blast and achieve actual transfer rates of maybe 1000 Kb/Sec you would reach
their 2 gig a day cap after 34 minutes and their rolling 30 day limit after
17 hours. This company allows you to use a maximum of 2.5% of what they
sell you.
Put another way, this company charges you for a 10 Lb box of instant potatoes
of which you are allowed to eat 4 ounces.
Well the math is over and I am sorry for any headaches it may have caused.
I hope you, your attorneys, and the judge/jury are as offended by what
these numbers show as I am. I wish you the best as I may soon be in a
similar situation with my ISP.
It's interesting, and shocking, to see how easy it is to exceed the FUP set by Internet providers. It certainly surprised me. Besides, when I take a "unlimited" service, I want to use all of it, perhaps not all the time, but a lot of the time - not 2.5%.
Just to keep everyone up to date, the summons was issued on the 16th of February and the defendant has 14 days to respond.
Finally, I have been asked by a lot of people whether it is possible to begin a class action against the Internet providers to get compensation for the loss of service. Frankly, I don't know, but if there are any lawyers out there who are interested in taking up these cases, I would be interested in hearing from you.
Friday 16 February 2007
This is what they do to others - 1
Here is a email that I have received. I thought I had it bad. This story is disgusting, but I'll let you judge for yourself:
Saw your posts. I am a demon customer / victim. Got a letter today saying 128 limit from 19 feb due to downloading 57GB last month. Have 3 computers - 2 kids who like to download music and tv progs and x box live which is why I wanted unlimited. Asked demon how I could tell if i was over their limit. They wouldnt tell me. Asked why no warning. Was told had been restricted last 3 months "which is why we sent the letter" (only ever communication, received today) . No emails in my demon account from them. Had demon for 7-8 months. Always been incredibly slow at times, from the first week. Contacted 'live help' multiple times and emailed them re sometimes it takes 10 min + just to open an email (more than once it has taken 30 min +) which is ridiculous and much slower than the aol dial up i previously used. Always problems with x box as is so slow not always poss to play games. I suspect that my connection has always been restricted. We only had dial up before so had no
broadband to compare it with.i am incensed that they have been debiting full amount from my account monthly whilst deliberately not providing the service i am paying for and deliberately not informing me of the restriction even when i have contacted them about slow speeds etc - they never replied to emails and live help consistently cut me off when i raised the issue. I think this is deliberate fraud and as far as i am concerned, theft of my money.How many others are they doing this to? If you would like to take class action I would be happy to join you, if you have any advice or have found a provider that doesnt do this to its customers, please let me know,
I think it is outrageous that a business can a) treat its customers like this and b) think they can get away with it. I thought there were some rogue traders out there, but this takes it all, to restrict someone for months without even notifying them that they are doing it is theft, no more, no less. You will be pleased to know that I have put this emailer in touch with an Internet provider who treats their customers with respect and tells you up front what the rules are.
Does anyone have an email address for the Chief Executive of Thus, because I have a stack of his customers who would really like to speak to him.
Another one tomorrow.
Saw your posts. I am a demon customer / victim. Got a letter today saying 128 limit from 19 feb due to downloading 57GB last month. Have 3 computers - 2 kids who like to download music and tv progs and x box live which is why I wanted unlimited. Asked demon how I could tell if i was over their limit. They wouldnt tell me. Asked why no warning. Was told had been restricted last 3 months "which is why we sent the letter" (only ever communication, received today) . No emails in my demon account from them. Had demon for 7-8 months. Always been incredibly slow at times, from the first week. Contacted 'live help' multiple times and emailed them re sometimes it takes 10 min + just to open an email (more than once it has taken 30 min +) which is ridiculous and much slower than the aol dial up i previously used. Always problems with x box as is so slow not always poss to play games. I suspect that my connection has always been restricted. We only had dial up before so had no
broadband to compare it with.i am incensed that they have been debiting full amount from my account monthly whilst deliberately not providing the service i am paying for and deliberately not informing me of the restriction even when i have contacted them about slow speeds etc - they never replied to emails and live help consistently cut me off when i raised the issue. I think this is deliberate fraud and as far as i am concerned, theft of my money.How many others are they doing this to? If you would like to take class action I would be happy to join you, if you have any advice or have found a provider that doesnt do this to its customers, please let me know,
I think it is outrageous that a business can a) treat its customers like this and b) think they can get away with it. I thought there were some rogue traders out there, but this takes it all, to restrict someone for months without even notifying them that they are doing it is theft, no more, no less. You will be pleased to know that I have put this emailer in touch with an Internet provider who treats their customers with respect and tells you up front what the rules are.
Does anyone have an email address for the Chief Executive of Thus, because I have a stack of his customers who would really like to speak to him.
Another one tomorrow.
Thursday 15 February 2007
The Holy Water Express is heading for the Demon
I'm afraid this is going to be a short post tonight. Just to let you, my beloved reader know that the paperwork has been filled in on-line and will be processed first thing in the morning.
The system is quite straightforward, but the website is a bit frustrating as there is one section that says that you should only fill it in if you have another address to send the details, but it won't let you skip it so it has to be filled in anyway. Grrrr.
I have to admit that the online system is very convenient and I would recommend it to anyone who decides to take this route. There are also lots of help files to assist you in the process.
I await developments.
The system is quite straightforward, but the website is a bit frustrating as there is one section that says that you should only fill it in if you have another address to send the details, but it won't let you skip it so it has to be filled in anyway. Grrrr.
I have to admit that the online system is very convenient and I would recommend it to anyone who decides to take this route. There are also lots of help files to assist you in the process.
I await developments.
Wednesday 14 February 2007
Final Day
This is the last chance for Demon to deal with this matter. I have given them the opportunity to settle this out of court, following two letters and they have declined to do so. Our Internet connection is still stuck at 128kbps despite me pointing out to them exactly what will happen if they do not restore the service to its contracted level. They have not replied in a timely manner to my correspondence, therefore there is no alternative available.
Tomorrow evening, after 10pm naturally, I will fill in the online forms to get the legal process under way.
Countdown to proceedings - 0 days.
Tomorrow evening, after 10pm naturally, I will fill in the online forms to get the legal process under way.
Countdown to proceedings - 0 days.
Tuesday 13 February 2007
Nearly there
Well, nothing has been delivered from Demon, as I have come to expect. It amuses me how companies have this "ignore it and it'll go away" mentality. Can you imagine doing that in real life? Exactly. I wonder if it's because no one really cares and therefore there is no motivation to sort the problem out?
The ironic thing about the Small Claims Court is that nowadays you can file your case on line, whereas a few years ago I had to go up to the local County Court and fill in all the paperwork. So in effect I am stabbing them with their own knife, metaphorically, however, you can only use the knife between 10pm and 9am. At 9am, the knife is taken off you and the blade is made dull and useless until 10pm when it is resharpened.
I will probably do the paperwork on Thursday night. After that it takes a few days for the summons to be served. Once that is done they are given the chance to tell their side of the story or make an offer before the hearing.
I have been receiving a lot of feedback from people with lots of suggestions and ideas about this blog. They have given me a number of different perspectives on this case. I will try and share some of them with you in the days between issuing the summons and the reply.
Countdown to Proceedings - 1 day
The ironic thing about the Small Claims Court is that nowadays you can file your case on line, whereas a few years ago I had to go up to the local County Court and fill in all the paperwork. So in effect I am stabbing them with their own knife, metaphorically, however, you can only use the knife between 10pm and 9am. At 9am, the knife is taken off you and the blade is made dull and useless until 10pm when it is resharpened.
I will probably do the paperwork on Thursday night. After that it takes a few days for the summons to be served. Once that is done they are given the chance to tell their side of the story or make an offer before the hearing.
I have been receiving a lot of feedback from people with lots of suggestions and ideas about this blog. They have given me a number of different perspectives on this case. I will try and share some of them with you in the days between issuing the summons and the reply.
Countdown to Proceedings - 1 day
Monday 12 February 2007
Top 12 Reasons why I Hate Fair Use
Here are my top 12 reasons why Fair Use Policies should be banned by Ofcom.
Countdown to proceedings - 2 days
- They tell you its Unlimited Broadband, then put an asterisk after it.
- Most ISP's don't tell you what the FUP limit is.
- Most ISP's don't know what the FUP limit is, they make it up as they go along.
- They use FUP to lie to you about Unlimited Broadband.
- They punish you to stop you using the service you have paid for.
- They punish you for using the service you have paid for.
- They say you are unreasonable because you use what they offer.
- They dishonestly use FUP to avoid comparing themselves against honest ISP's who list their limits.
- They use weasel words to make you feel you are in the wrong.
- They use weasel words to make other people think you are stealing from them, when it is the FUP that hides the theft from the ISP.
- They use the FUP to reduce their costs and reduce competition.
- They use the term Fair Use, when it is far from fair.
Countdown to proceedings - 2 days
Sunday 11 February 2007
What have I started?
It's funny, when something like this happens you think you are the only person it is happening to. It's only when you create something like this blog that you begin to see the fury and rage that people have towards this unfair practice by Internet providers.
When I first started writing this, I thought that there were a few people affected by it. I put a posting in the forums at http://www.thinkbroadband.com and http://www.ispreview.co.uk; not only did I get a lot of comments, all supportive I may add, but there were over 4000 views.
Having read through the posts and getting a lot of really good advice by the way, I am wondering whether the way to go for other people is to get a class action going against some of these Internet providers.
The thing that causes the people most problems is the secretive way that the ISP's go about setting an FUP. For example, in my own case, I did not know what the fair use limits were until I had exceeded them and received the letter telling me that I was being punished; and I use the word punished carefully.
The time has come for the regulator, OFCOM, to put things right. He should outlaw fair use clauses and force the Internet providers to publicly disclose their limits. Some ISP's, including the one I am moving to later this month, advertise freely what upload and download limits they allow. Unfortunately, this honesty puts them at a commercial disadvantage to those ISP's who claim to have "unlimited" broadband offerings whilst stating that they are subject to a "Fair Use Policy".
If ISP's offer unlimited broadband contracts, but then put Fair Use anywhere after it, they are lying. So, go ahead, have a look at the unlimited broadband offerings out there and spot the tell-tale asterisk or bracketed comment, because it will be there.
Countdown to proceedings - 3 Days
When I first started writing this, I thought that there were a few people affected by it. I put a posting in the forums at http://www.thinkbroadband.com and http://www.ispreview.co.uk; not only did I get a lot of comments, all supportive I may add, but there were over 4000 views.
Having read through the posts and getting a lot of really good advice by the way, I am wondering whether the way to go for other people is to get a class action going against some of these Internet providers.
The thing that causes the people most problems is the secretive way that the ISP's go about setting an FUP. For example, in my own case, I did not know what the fair use limits were until I had exceeded them and received the letter telling me that I was being punished; and I use the word punished carefully.
The time has come for the regulator, OFCOM, to put things right. He should outlaw fair use clauses and force the Internet providers to publicly disclose their limits. Some ISP's, including the one I am moving to later this month, advertise freely what upload and download limits they allow. Unfortunately, this honesty puts them at a commercial disadvantage to those ISP's who claim to have "unlimited" broadband offerings whilst stating that they are subject to a "Fair Use Policy".
If ISP's offer unlimited broadband contracts, but then put Fair Use anywhere after it, they are lying. So, go ahead, have a look at the unlimited broadband offerings out there and spot the tell-tale asterisk or bracketed comment, because it will be there.
Countdown to proceedings - 3 Days
Saturday 10 February 2007
The FUP Cover-Up
Whilst I’m waiting for either Demon to reply to my letter, or for Wednesday to come around, I thought I’d have a look at the Fair Usage Policy of their competitors, to see if they are any more legally enforceable. Let’s start with BT Total Broadband.
Options 1 and 2 of the Total Broadband package are clearly indicated: Option 1 has a limit of 5Gb whilst Option 2 limits downloads to 8Gb. However, when we get to Option 3, the so-called “Unlimited” option, things start to get very woolly indeed. Please note that BT does not seem to differentiate between upload and download on their limits, so beware. Here is the actual text:
7. What is the Fair Usage Policy on Option 3 Unlimited?
BT Total Broadband's Fair Usage Policy is designed to make sure that the very few excessive users on the Option 3 Unlimited product do not use their service at the detriment of other customers.
BT will monitor network performance and may restrict the amount of bandwidth available to very heavy users during peak time to ensure that the majority of the customer base has a good customer experience. There will be no restriction imposed outside of these peak times.
If you don't use Peer-to-Peer or file sharing software or if you don't download very large files continuously at peak times, then it is very unlikely you will be affected by this policy.
For my second example, let’s look at Sky. What is it with Internet companies that have to hide the Fair Use Policy, like the mad aunt in the attic? Oh yes, I know why, because it’s unenforceable.
Our FUP normally has little or no effect on the average broadband user. For example, if you do not excessively use file sharing software (including peer-to-peer) and uploading and downloading of very large files.
However, if your use of Sky Broadband becomes consistently excessive and has an adverse impact on the Sky Network and/or other users, out FUP enables us to intervene.
Our aim is to provide a fair broadband service to all our customers. Therefore, we think to impose an actual figure on what we consider to be “excessive” use is not necessarily helpful and may penalise users unfairly. What is deemed excessive will be determined by a number of factors, including (but not limited to) the length of time which your excessive usage continues for, as well as the amount of bandwidth used.
What a load of old hogwash. If one user has an “adverse impact on the Sky Network” then they need to fire their staff and start again, because the network design is seriously flawed.
The reason that Internet companies do not declare their capping is not because they “…think to impose an actual figure on what we consider to be “excessive” use is not necessarily helpful”, but because we, the public, will be able to make a comparison with other, more honest Internet providers who do declare their limits. That would then expose the FUP fraudsters for what they are. It’s interesting to see that Sky Broadband actually has two sets of terms and conditions, the one that you can read on screen, the other you have to download as a pdf.
Would anyone like to send me the FUP they are operating under? And how hard are they to find?
Countdown to proceedings - 4 Days
Friday 9 February 2007
The first letter back
I got home from work yesterday and found this letter had been delivered. Although the letter was dated 2nd February, the postmark was marked 7.2.07. Here it is:
Thank you for your recent letter.
As we are keen to ensure our customers receive the greatest benefit from Demon services we had to introduce the Fair Use Policy (FUP) for our residential ADSL services. I apologise if you feel this policy was not made explicit however it is stated in the ADSL Terms and Conditions, to which you agreed when ordering the service. The limits imposed are generous in comparison with our competitors and are on a rolling-basis.
These limits are also subject to change without notice. I would like to emphasise that as the FUP is considered on a rolling-basis, and with such high acceptable use limits, we do not send advisory letters when customers approach this limit. Should the usage on such an occasion be found to be excessive, then it is important that service is restricted to ensure the stability of other customer's connections is maintained.
On behalf of Demon I would like to apologise for any undue inconvenience you feel you have experienced as a result of our FUP, but trust you will appreciate this policy is effected to provide the greatest use of Demon services for the maximum number of customers.
If you have any queries regarding this, or any other matter, please do not hesitate to contact our Customer Services Team on 0854 2722666. Alternatively to initiate a live chat session with one of our Customer Service / Support advisors on-line please go to www.demon.net/helpdesk, this service allows you to receive a response immediately to any questions you may have regarding your account.
Please note our Customer Service telephone lines are open from 8am - 8pm, Mon-Sat. [sic] and our e-mail address is enquiries@demon.net. Please remember to quote the reference at the top of this letter should you wish to contact us.
Yours sincerely,
Customer Services Administration
As you can see, they are sticking to the same line. Where is the proof I asked for that I had actually downloaded what they claim? They still do not tell us what the limits are as they say they are "subject to change without notice". They still refuse to give warning and frankly the fact that they give 24 hours notice of their actions is outrageous.
The offer to enter a live chat session on-line is hilarious - I can't even get the BBC web site between 8am and 10pm, how in hell am I expected to hold a conversation?
This action has had a severe impact upon my business. My daughter, who is educated at home cannot get to the educational materials she needs. The web is useless, email trickles in, any kind of voice messaging, like Skype or Ventrilo is impossible and the MMORPG, for which I pay a hefty subscription, is dead in the water.
In point of fact Demon is lying. If they were trying to reduce the use of their services to "... ensure the stability of other customer's connections is maintained." then a reduction from 8mbps to 2 or 1 mbps would suffice. Reducing it to 128kbps is draconian and imposed as a deliberate punishment to ensure that you are so scared that you will not dare to exceed the limit again (if you can find out what it is, of course).
Countdown to proceedings - 5 days.
Thank you for your recent letter.
As we are keen to ensure our customers receive the greatest benefit from Demon services we had to introduce the Fair Use Policy (FUP) for our residential ADSL services. I apologise if you feel this policy was not made explicit however it is stated in the ADSL Terms and Conditions, to which you agreed when ordering the service. The limits imposed are generous in comparison with our competitors and are on a rolling-basis.
These limits are also subject to change without notice. I would like to emphasise that as the FUP is considered on a rolling-basis, and with such high acceptable use limits, we do not send advisory letters when customers approach this limit. Should the usage on such an occasion be found to be excessive, then it is important that service is restricted to ensure the stability of other customer's connections is maintained.
On behalf of Demon I would like to apologise for any undue inconvenience you feel you have experienced as a result of our FUP, but trust you will appreciate this policy is effected to provide the greatest use of Demon services for the maximum number of customers.
If you have any queries regarding this, or any other matter, please do not hesitate to contact our Customer Services Team on 0854 2722666. Alternatively to initiate a live chat session with one of our Customer Service / Support advisors on-line please go to www.demon.net/helpdesk, this service allows you to receive a response immediately to any questions you may have regarding your account.
Please note our Customer Service telephone lines are open from 8am - 8pm, Mon-Sat. [sic] and our e-mail address is enquiries@demon.net. Please remember to quote the reference at the top of this letter should you wish to contact us.
Yours sincerely,
Customer Services Administration
As you can see, they are sticking to the same line. Where is the proof I asked for that I had actually downloaded what they claim? They still do not tell us what the limits are as they say they are "subject to change without notice". They still refuse to give warning and frankly the fact that they give 24 hours notice of their actions is outrageous.
The offer to enter a live chat session on-line is hilarious - I can't even get the BBC web site between 8am and 10pm, how in hell am I expected to hold a conversation?
This action has had a severe impact upon my business. My daughter, who is educated at home cannot get to the educational materials she needs. The web is useless, email trickles in, any kind of voice messaging, like Skype or Ventrilo is impossible and the MMORPG, for which I pay a hefty subscription, is dead in the water.
In point of fact Demon is lying. If they were trying to reduce the use of their services to "... ensure the stability of other customer's connections is maintained." then a reduction from 8mbps to 2 or 1 mbps would suffice. Reducing it to 128kbps is draconian and imposed as a deliberate punishment to ensure that you are so scared that you will not dare to exceed the limit again (if you can find out what it is, of course).
Countdown to proceedings - 5 days.
Wednesday 7 February 2007
The waiting game
I expected to get a reply fairly swiftly from Demon. I waited and waited and nothing came, so on February 1st I decided to get some legal advice before my final letter.
As I run my own business, I'm lucky to be part of the Federation of Small Businesses. With that membership comes legal insurance, so I thought I'd check that I was right. I phoned the number and left a short description of my complaint against Demon. I was told that a solicitor (lawyer in the US) would call back within the hour.
30 minutes later the solicitor phoned back. I described in detail what the problem was and how I saw it as being a breach of the contract I had with Demon. I was told in no uncertain terms that I was absolutely right and to proceed against them. The lady from the legal helpline thought it was unlikely that they would allow it to go to court as it was such an obvious open and shut case.
Armed with this pleasing news I wrote the following letter the same day.
As at this date, Demon have not answered my letter. So on Wednesday next week, if I haven't received the amount and assurances that I demanded I will issue the writ and get things moving. Of course I will update this blog and print the writ details.
As I run my own business, I'm lucky to be part of the Federation of Small Businesses. With that membership comes legal insurance, so I thought I'd check that I was right. I phoned the number and left a short description of my complaint against Demon. I was told that a solicitor (lawyer in the US) would call back within the hour.
30 minutes later the solicitor phoned back. I described in detail what the problem was and how I saw it as being a breach of the contract I had with Demon. I was told in no uncertain terms that I was absolutely right and to proceed against them. The lady from the legal helpline thought it was unlikely that they would allow it to go to court as it was such an obvious open and shut case.
Armed with this pleasing news I wrote the following letter the same day.
Dear Sir,
Hostname:
In my previous correspondence I informed you of the action I was going to take as you have broken your contract terms under the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977.
Unless you immediately restore our Internet connection to its former level within 7 calendar days I will be proceeding to the Small Claims Section of the
Should you restore the Internet connection, I will also require a payment of £xxx.xx to cover my losses during this period plus the cost of having to find another provider at a higher cost for a period of 12 months. If this is not received within 7 calendar days, I will again proceed to the Small
I look forward to receiving immediate restoration of our Internet service, as contracted, and the payment listed above, along with confirmation that our service has been restored and your written assurance that it will not be restricted again.
Yours sincerelyAs at this date, Demon have not answered my letter. So on Wednesday next week, if I haven't received the amount and assurances that I demanded I will issue the writ and get things moving. Of course I will update this blog and print the writ details.
Friday 2 February 2007
Evening the odds
The thing that got me so upset about Demon's actions was their sheer arrogance. A contract is supposed to be a negotiated agreement between two consenting parties, not an imposition of one entities will over another.
By reducing the download speed from 8 Mbps to 128kbps, they reduced our download speed to below 2% of its correct speed. If Demon, as they claim, wanted to protect the 99% of their users from the 1% of "unreasonable" customers, they could have done this by reducing the speed to 2Mbps. That would have freed up bandwidth for the other (alleged) 99%, whilst still providing a reasonable service. What Demon is actually doing is punishing people for taking full advantage of the bandwidth they supply and advertise. By restricting the bandwidth they are misrepresenting themselves and their product. Their advertising strap line should be "8Mbps download speed, but don't dare use it."
When Demon supplied the service, they vaguely mentioned "fair use". This is meaningless in law as they refused to reveal their definitions. In other words Demon decided that they would make a an example of the people who pay money for an 8Mbps service and have the nerve to take advantage of it!
How many washing machines have you bought that have a clause that says that if you use it too often at the top spin speed we'll come and take it off you?
Anyway, back to the important bit - what happened next.
After thinking about what action I was going to take, I decided to see how widespread the problem was.
I started searching some of the forums on the web and soon realised that I was by no means alone. It became apparent that Demon had decided to start enforcing its fair use policy in December and started sending out their letters. Not only did they only disclose their criteria once they had decided to attack its own customers, but they even decided that these "guidelines" "may be subject to change without notice".
So we who are currently suffering Demon's arbitrary punishment are likely to be only the vanguard of a campaign to save Thus plc money. We are the 1%, but when we vote with our feet, the next 1% will be chosen, and so forth until they reach the point where the customers are so scared of being chosen that they dare not download anything. Then Demon will no longer need to invest in equipment to improve service because its customers will have already been neutered. More profit - very clever!
The following day, I saw the impact of Demon's actions. My business stopped operating. I could not check my web sites, as they kept timing out, my email was trickling in, my PC's were locking up, I could not use the MMORPG that I paid a subscription for. Logging in to Digg would take 2 minutes instead of 3 seconds and half the time it would timeout. In effect I was paying for a service and not receiving that service, not because of a fault, but by deliberate action.
At this point I wrote my first letter to the CEO of Demon. I could not name him, because when I telephoned the number on the letter (see yesterday's post) the support person refused to give it to me. Here is the letter:
By reducing the download speed from 8 Mbps to 128kbps, they reduced our download speed to below 2% of its correct speed. If Demon, as they claim, wanted to protect the 99% of their users from the 1% of "unreasonable" customers, they could have done this by reducing the speed to 2Mbps. That would have freed up bandwidth for the other (alleged) 99%, whilst still providing a reasonable service. What Demon is actually doing is punishing people for taking full advantage of the bandwidth they supply and advertise. By restricting the bandwidth they are misrepresenting themselves and their product. Their advertising strap line should be "8Mbps download speed, but don't dare use it."
When Demon supplied the service, they vaguely mentioned "fair use". This is meaningless in law as they refused to reveal their definitions. In other words Demon decided that they would make a an example of the people who pay money for an 8Mbps service and have the nerve to take advantage of it!
How many washing machines have you bought that have a clause that says that if you use it too often at the top spin speed we'll come and take it off you?
Anyway, back to the important bit - what happened next.
After thinking about what action I was going to take, I decided to see how widespread the problem was.
I started searching some of the forums on the web and soon realised that I was by no means alone. It became apparent that Demon had decided to start enforcing its fair use policy in December and started sending out their letters. Not only did they only disclose their criteria once they had decided to attack its own customers, but they even decided that these "guidelines" "may be subject to change without notice".
So we who are currently suffering Demon's arbitrary punishment are likely to be only the vanguard of a campaign to save Thus plc money. We are the 1%, but when we vote with our feet, the next 1% will be chosen, and so forth until they reach the point where the customers are so scared of being chosen that they dare not download anything. Then Demon will no longer need to invest in equipment to improve service because its customers will have already been neutered. More profit - very clever!
The following day, I saw the impact of Demon's actions. My business stopped operating. I could not check my web sites, as they kept timing out, my email was trickling in, my PC's were locking up, I could not use the MMORPG that I paid a subscription for. Logging in to Digg would take 2 minutes instead of 3 seconds and half the time it would timeout. In effect I was paying for a service and not receiving that service, not because of a fault, but by deliberate action.
At this point I wrote my first letter to the CEO of Demon. I could not name him, because when I telephoned the number on the letter (see yesterday's post) the support person refused to give it to me. Here is the letter:
Dear Sir,
Hostname:
I am writing to you in response to the undated letter I have received from your Customer Services team, which I received on Thursday, January 18th, informing us that our speed would be restricted between 9am and 10pm commencing the following day, the 19th.
Having now taken legal advice, it appears that your capping of our internet service is premature. There are a number of reasons for this and are as follows:
· No warning was given that we were approaching our “maximum
· We were at no time told what that
· We were provided with no documentary evidence to support your claim.
· We were given insufficient notice to be able to bring this matter to your attention before the service was capped.
We therefore look forward to an immediate restoration of our service at its previous level, as your terms and conditions with particular emphasis upon your “fair use” provisions, would not pass legal scrutiny.
I look forward to your immediate compliance with this requirement, to avoid us taking
Yours sincerely
I sent the letter by recorded delivery on January 22nd and waited ... and waited ... and waited. To my surprise, I received no reply and no acknowledgement. Mmm, I thought, this is going to be fun.
Next ... Now I'm really going to sort this.
Thursday 1 February 2007
And so it begins...
This is my first blog and it is written in anger. Although it will be infrequent, I will keep it up as long as there is a reason for it. If you have stories about the cheap tricks your Internet provider uses to circumvent your legal rights, let me hear about them. Unfortunately for Demon and their parent Company Thus, they have taken on someone who a) knows enough about the law that he knows a crock when he sees one and b) is prepared to show up this disgraceful behaviour for exactly what it is, a rip-off. It is my experience that many large companies feel that they can just run roughshod over peoples contractual rights (I have previously successfully sued many large companies, including Ikea) because they think that people can't or won't fight back. This is where they are wrong.
If you like this blog, please tell as many people as possible, including on-line social and search sites, so that others will not be ripped off.
I have been a subscriber to Demon Internet since 1996 and have always been happy with their service. Having started out with a dial up account I moved through ISDN to broadband and with that a regular hike in speed to my current 8mb level.
Everything was proceeding normally until January 18th, 2007 when this letter dropped through my letterbox from them. Some of you may have received one of these yourself, if you are a Demon subscriber, or something similar from you own Internet supplier.
"Dear Customer,
At Thus plc, we take great care to ensure a high standard of service is provided to our Home and Home Office broadband customers. We provide this through ongoing performance monitoring of the THUS plc network, including regular analysis of customer bandwidth usage.
While we encourage our customers to take full advantage of the excellent quality of service we offer, we are also obliged to ensure that our service is used in accordance with our Fair Usage Policy, a copy of which can be found at http://www.demon.net/helpdesk/producthelp/aup/thusfup.
This forms part of the Agreement between Thus plc and our Home and HomeOffice customers.
We would like to take this opportunity to remind you that in the circumstances where bandwidth usage exceeds what we consider to be reasonable, it is necessary to take steps to reduce usage to a more equitable level.
Thus plc currently regards 50Gb as being fair a maximum usage [sic] level of downloads during a rolling 30 day period for Home Customers, and 60Gb for Home Office Customers. Please note that these limits are guidelines and may be subject to change without notice.
We are writing to advise that our use analysis shows that over the past 30 days you have downloaded 116.51Gb (their emphasis). Consequently, in accordance with our Fair Usage Policy, we have had to take immediate corrective action.
With effect from 19/01/2007 (again, their emphasis) your download speed will be limited to 128kbps between the hours of 9am and 10pm for a 30 day period. After this period you will be returned to normal speeds, unless you have continued to exceed the maximum usage levels for your service, in which case you will be restricted for a further 30 days. No limitations will apply outside these times. You will be able to use the maximum download speed that your line will support. Upstream speeds will not be limited at any time.
Following this period of restriction, THUS plc will continue to monitor bandwidth usage and you continue to exceed the levels we deem acceptable, as outlined above, it may be necessary to restrict your usage again. However, having brought this matter to your attention, we hope that you will be able to reduce your bandwidth usage and further restrictions in the future will not be required.
May I take this opportunity to thank you for your custom, and offer my apologies for any inconvenience that this may cause. If you have any questions relating to this matter, please contact our Customer Services team on 0845 2722333.
Yours Sincerely
Demon Customer Services."
Frankly, I was disgusted, and more importantly, I believed that what they were doing fell outside of contract law. The temptation was to phone the number and start ripping into their customer services team, but I knew that wasn't going to get me anywhere, after all they are just people like me, trying to do a reasonable job of work, under difficult circumstances that Thus was making worse for them. I hold my hat out to them, they must have received some serious abuse after these bombshells hit the doormat.
My first port of call was the web link that was provided in the letter. There is no indication on that page of what is expected by their customers to meet "fair use". Furthermore, if you go to their link under "A practical guide to the FUP can be found on" you will see that you are presented with no reference to the FUP at all. Finally, if you look under 8Mbps Upgrade FAQ, there is some writing there (I won't refer to it as detail as that would be untrue).
My next post will tell you what I did next and my philosophy is, don't get mad get even.
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I have been a subscriber to Demon Internet since 1996 and have always been happy with their service. Having started out with a dial up account I moved through ISDN to broadband and with that a regular hike in speed to my current 8mb level.
Everything was proceeding normally until January 18th, 2007 when this letter dropped through my letterbox from them. Some of you may have received one of these yourself, if you are a Demon subscriber, or something similar from you own Internet supplier.
"Dear Customer,
At Thus plc, we take great care to ensure a high standard of service is provided to our Home and Home Office broadband customers. We provide this through ongoing performance monitoring of the THUS plc network, including regular analysis of customer bandwidth usage.
While we encourage our customers to take full advantage of the excellent quality of service we offer, we are also obliged to ensure that our service is used in accordance with our Fair Usage Policy, a copy of which can be found at http://www.demon.net/helpdesk/producthelp/aup/thusfup.
This forms part of the Agreement between Thus plc and our Home and HomeOffice customers.
We would like to take this opportunity to remind you that in the circumstances where bandwidth usage exceeds what we consider to be reasonable, it is necessary to take steps to reduce usage to a more equitable level.
Thus plc currently regards 50Gb as being fair a maximum usage [sic] level of downloads during a rolling 30 day period for Home Customers, and 60Gb for Home Office Customers. Please note that these limits are guidelines and may be subject to change without notice.
We are writing to advise that our use analysis shows that over the past 30 days you have downloaded 116.51Gb (their emphasis). Consequently, in accordance with our Fair Usage Policy, we have had to take immediate corrective action.
With effect from 19/01/2007 (again, their emphasis) your download speed will be limited to 128kbps between the hours of 9am and 10pm for a 30 day period. After this period you will be returned to normal speeds, unless you have continued to exceed the maximum usage levels for your service, in which case you will be restricted for a further 30 days. No limitations will apply outside these times. You will be able to use the maximum download speed that your line will support. Upstream speeds will not be limited at any time.
Following this period of restriction, THUS plc will continue to monitor bandwidth usage and you continue to exceed the levels we deem acceptable, as outlined above, it may be necessary to restrict your usage again. However, having brought this matter to your attention, we hope that you will be able to reduce your bandwidth usage and further restrictions in the future will not be required.
May I take this opportunity to thank you for your custom, and offer my apologies for any inconvenience that this may cause. If you have any questions relating to this matter, please contact our Customer Services team on 0845 2722333.
Yours Sincerely
Demon Customer Services."
Frankly, I was disgusted, and more importantly, I believed that what they were doing fell outside of contract law. The temptation was to phone the number and start ripping into their customer services team, but I knew that wasn't going to get me anywhere, after all they are just people like me, trying to do a reasonable job of work, under difficult circumstances that Thus was making worse for them. I hold my hat out to them, they must have received some serious abuse after these bombshells hit the doormat.
My first port of call was the web link that was provided in the letter. There is no indication on that page of what is expected by their customers to meet "fair use". Furthermore, if you go to their link under "A practical guide to the FUP can be found on" you will see that you are presented with no reference to the FUP at all. Finally, if you look under 8Mbps Upgrade FAQ, there is some writing there (I won't refer to it as detail as that would be untrue).
My next post will tell you what I did next and my philosophy is, don't get mad get even.
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